Thread: Chicken Flipping: Official discussion thread

Honestly, better wording:

I just want the aggressive language gone on both ends. It hurts a lot to look at, the game just feels too serious about this particular subject. I don't care if you flip or don't. I'll stay on my side, you stay on yours. I've been buying chickens with those types of messages to keep solely because them being sold with those bios makes me sad. They're just digital chooks. :(

@blushpyre honestly same. it doesn't matter which side you take, just be nice about it :(

Why is this such a big issue? It's a silly chicken game I want it to stay silly

I don't care for either side but honestly this whole thing is tiring, people need to just agree to disagree, block if they need to and move on. Not make whole arguments for one side or the other. This seems very childish tbh. Please just move on

Flipping could be annoying sure, but honestly just block and move on no need for all the passive aggression (on both sides) it makes them look like actual little kids.

Let's all just be silly and goofy guys!!! Bring back silly goofy fun!

I'm personally in 100% agreeance with @Katt
Knowing people have been flipping chickens they have been gifted has been super saddening and has kept me hesitant about gifting any of my chickens away, even if I don't want them. Personally, I hope for my chickens to be appreciated where I cannot appreciate them. Some people also put so much effort into their chickens, even if they don't want them, and I find it sort of disrespectful to do something like this. Also, in my opinion, there are easier ways to get eggs. By breeding your chickens to sell them, you avoid the risk of hurting anyone's feelings accidentally and could make a more consistent profit.
I'm not trying to shame anyone here for flipping but I hope people can understand why people who don't want their chickens to be flipped are upset. They put effort into making someone, possibly with the hope that it would be appreciated, and it gets sold off without what seems to be a care in the world. The thought of that makes me sad.

Hi I just want to point out real quick that regarding the thing about "setting prices too low" -- part of this came from when there was an update that increased release rewards some time ago that not all players were immediately aware of/remembered, so there was a time where people had chickens that were originally selling at higher-than-release/pool but suddenly were not due to the update. So it's not a case of "why sell low if you didn't want released" -- many people hadn't realised in time.

The other part was that many users gave away chickens to new players for free/cheap and some of these got released/pooled quickly which made many feel taken advantage of, especially if they had been hoping the chickens were requested because the other person genuinely wanted to have them around the coop.

On my end I'm just like, if I gave /sold the chicken I'm not its legal guardian anymore, but I can't help but feel sympathetic to the players in the above scenarios who had their chickens pooled/released "unexpectedly". I think maybe clearer communications between the players could have helped matters because (like was pointed out) not everyone knows how each other is playing the game and if there are any unspoken rules in communities like this.
I am also in agreement that it's a community issue and the site should not step in officially on this.

Bouncing off what asprg said:

Another part of the farmhouse prices "being so low" was because maybe a month or two ago? The community (when it was probably much smaller than now) kind of realized that we viewed "affordable/fair pricing" for chickens to be between 50-200 eggs. Most people started selling chickens between 50-100 eggs to keep it affordable for newer players as well.

Whether this is still a valid thought process or if this needs to change as the site grows is a different conversation, but seeing the low prices being called "exploitable" personally makes me think the answer is yes, the mentality regarding what the baseline price of selling chickens should be should change as the site grows

Not that it's as simple as just stating it and it just happens- this would probably take time to effectively change as a community-wide mentality I'd think but I imagine this might help the situation in regards to flipping?

Edit: changed some poor phrasing / elaborated my thought

I have a variety of thoughts on this, but I largely share the opinion that this isn't something that the site should take an official position on in favor of one side or the other. Discouraging people from blocking feels counterproductive when the site purposely has increasingly robust blocking functions, specifically so that users can curate their experience as they like. It is unfortunate that this might get some people blocked more than others, but that's sort of the nature of things. I think most people tend to unblock over time anyway once they've had a chance to get some space from a person who upset them (though others don't, which is also fine). Unless anyone is being actively targetted, or inappropriate communication is being used, I think it's a community matter that's just going to have to balance itself out over time.

As someone who's spent too much time on the side of people building up hatcheries for not monetary gain but community accomplishment/relief/kindness, I do find the topic of flipping to be very disillusioning and particularly meanspirited to do with chickens you've gotten for free, or simply some seeds. Kind users above me have stated the issue about free chickens/give-aways/things to make new players feel included, and although we're all AWARE flipping isn't against the rules, it's terribly dehumanizing to those who simply want to do things for accesibility or kindness' sake.

I've been witness to other people's chickens being expunged from data rather mindlessly, and I can't help but feel a sense of sadness and dissatisfaction when that happens. I try not to hold it against some users, specially new users, since I'm aware it's a mechanic of the game. But seeing so much time and effort go down the gutter for a measly 50-60 eggs seems like a misplay. This is however coming from a deeply personal (as in, it touches with what I've dedicated myself to doing here) perspective, and I'm sure a lot of others haven't quite experienced flipping this way, but it does genuinely feel like you've being played for a fool, or taken advantage of. THIS is why people deal with flippers in such a mean way, since they'd want to demoralize feeling demoralized, and it is a bit despairful seeing some chickens go that have held some personal meaning to an user but don't feel befitting of their coop anymore, or must go (coop space, for example), etc, etc.

This long winded rant is all to simply agree and stay on the side of the affected, and maybe bring or share a light (as others above me have) on some specific reactions flipping has brought up. I also agree with Raziel and the topic of using someone else's maybe gifts or efforts to make a profit and gain art, that although not cheating, doesn't quite feel moral. The reaction users have given against the flipping seems, in this regard, quite fair.

Side note: Fully in agreeance with Waltz, here. Blocking should NOT be last resort, it's a perfectly neutral action to take. If some people want to block firsthand, let them do it. Curating one's experience specially in such a small community is ideal.

@Waltz Just double checking, is that a suggestion to update the official announcement? (EDIT: either way fair point that I should probably not be noting a specific reason to use/not use blocks, change has been made)

I mainly made that note because I'm aware of the potential of the block function as a vector for socially excluding someone (e.g. spreading a name around so all their friends block them) which is arguably infringing on the site rules. But it is really hard to police that type of behaviour because I can only guess if it's happening, so I guess all I can do is note what I have about there being more constructive ways to deal with it first!

Yeah, I was mostly referencing the official announcement! Since unfortunately any opinion stated officially can get read as official policy, so it's best if it's as neutral as possible. I think the updated wording makes sense!

@Kallikit those messages were meant to not directly quote anyone, but that's a fair opinion. I have removed those since I can see how it can feel targeted.

@Kallikit Obviously I have no say over your comfort/what makes you comfy/uncomfy of course and I definitely hope you feel better soon, you shouldn't have to fear/be distressed over your opinion. But I don't think that's the fault of CJ/the wording of the announcement! CJ is asking everyone to be kind and courteous and does so twice in the message, but responding in this conversation as a whole kind of inherently makes it known on if you're for/against/neutral to flipping to some degree since there's not an anonymous poll or anything! One of those things/kinds of info you just give up to the people when you respond me thinks.

This does give me a small comment on the text post though since I've seen/read some of the anti-flipping stances now. CJ can i suggest a sort of memorial garden/hall of fame using the info kept from released chickens? (i know we have one but like, one for released chickens?) It might help people feel better about losing chickens they hatched/had but didn't keep for whatever may be the given reason. Alternatively upping the coop limit more? The only "solution" I can think of is giving users more ways to keep their chickens, but outside of that I think the issue is just going to persist unfortunately since people who are against it will be against it regardless and people who do it will do it because they can regardless. I also would like to echo that regardless if any of the suggested features are considered, it's definitely a community issue. And ultimately the only thing the site should step on is disparaging comments/cruelties between parties. No one should be treated meanly/cruelty regardless of a difference of opinion.

@Metous I wanted to mention that the benefit side to releasing chickens (that maybe most people aren't aware of) is to reduce server load. We have over 10k chickens atm and as the site grows, the database size needed to keep track of them increases. Once they're released, space is freed up in the server storage. In the current system where we keep the chicken's name and appearance and family tree, it's still a smaller storage package than a chicken that isn't released. To be honest, there's a lot of chickens in the pullet pool (for example) that have been there for a while and are just taking up space with nobody picking them up. If they're released (instead of sticking around in the pool), it'll reduce the storage size.

@werfenspeer OH YEAH!!! I can only imagine! I only suggest the memorial garden idea as a keeping peace idea/saving a minimal amount of data from a released chicken. I thought mentality wise it might help people who are still wary of releasing chickens post release updates, since you can still view them in a way! I'm sorry, I'm not sure what part of my message made it seem like I have any concerns/issues with release/garnered this message, but pls lmk and I'll fix it asap(also okay if this is just side info/fun fact teehee I just like checking in with ppl)!!! I personally got worried about the bloat issue a while back, cause there's only going to be more chickens and out of that ultimately more that aren't really wanted/aren't wanted in the way that someone is willing to keep them. I'm usually a bit quicker of trying to release mine but I want the next achievement teehee! I do appreciate you explaining a bit more of the technical side of it though! I think it's a welcome addition to the discussion!

(maybe we should not let this discussion turn into "to release or not to release" -- rather just stay on "(re)selling/releasing/pooling chickens for a higher reward". The flipping in question is not motivated by coop space I think!)